Winch has long been a pedigree in the yachting world. They're rapidly achieving the same
in VIP aviation.
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Feature Article - Winch Design / London's Super Studio - May, 2023 Issue
RR: Good answer. But it begs a little follow-up. Have you ever had a situation where in your renderings you had a specific design proposed and following PDR maybe, you had to go back to your customer and say look, in studying build issues and engineering hours, we've discovered we’re either not going to be able to preserve this detail or it's going to push the completion later or cost a ton more money – or both. I’m Just curious if that’s ever happened.
GJ: Yes, a few times. I mean you know generally we're lucky and/or experienced enough after 20 years in aviation, to avoid them. But of course, It’s bound to happen now and again for the simple reason that you can’t predict through concept what’s going to work in every case in the real world on that aircraft. We generally know what's going to work what isn't going to work and what is probably going to work but might be pushing the boundaries a bit. And that's where we quite like to keep our concepts - just at the edge of the envelope. We owe our clients that, right? Part of the job is pushing the boundaries, but you have to do that within a sphere of reasonability based on your experience and the likely push-back or impacts you will encounter.
Your concepts have to be reasonably feasible, and you have some potential solutions for making it work if, and when, you get that push-back. Because it’s exactly what you just said, right? Once you've sold the client on something - once you’ve showed them the renderings and they love it, it's very hard to roll back from that. You always want to work really hard to avoid that situation – but sometimes of course, it happens, and you simply have to present your client with real legitimate reasons why it’s not in his best interest to pursue it and re-present your compromise or re-design.
RR: Obviously in today's world of CGI visuals; the renderings and animations we put in front of our customers are, at the highest levels, photorealistic, sometimes virtually indiscernible from reality. Do you produce your 3D visualizations in-house and if so, would you say they are the single biggest asset in getting the ‘yes’ from the customer.
GJ: Yes, we produce all of our visualizations in house. We have a fully internal team of about ten people who specialize solely in generating 3d computer graphics, renderings etc. And that would include our animations as well. And as you know, that’s a pretty complex process. I don't think people really appreciate how much work goes into those visuals because in effect, you are building the interior. You have to model everything from scratch, so you're literally creating everything in that cabin, in the computer. It is a huge amount of work - the modeling and the geometry and the lighting and the camera angles and texturing. It is an enormous task and consumes countless hours to finally wind up with photo realistic images. Then of course, to produce an animation is a is a whole other step up.
But coming to your question “is it the single biggest asset in getting the yes from our customers?”, that's an interesting one. Firstly, I think there's an industry standard these days, right? I mean, with the level of customers we’re dealing with, they all expect this super high level of visualizations. They fully expect to see photo realistic images of your design. But are they our biggest asset? I don't necessarily think so. I think we've got lots of different tools in our toolbox. Tools that we can use and you pick from in deciding what’s appropriate for the brief and for the client. At the end of the day, we're selling them. We're selling them their dream or we're selling them a lifestyle and it's all about how you get that across to them. Sometimes you know you can present a client beautiful, hyper-realistic CGI visuals and they might not be feeling it. But you show them a very organic hand sketch with some watercolor over it and they see something in that. They see it's handcrafted but also, they have more freedom to project what they want to see - because it's a little bit looser. Another way to try and convey what I mean is, the super definitive, hyper-realistic visuals in a way are blunt because you're sort of saying this is it! This is your aircraft - full stop. It can feel that way sometimes to a customer, whereas if you have a sketch or a or a watercolor drawing or you know something a little more conceptual, they can ‘feel’ their dream taking shape vs. already sort of set-in stone.
And so, these amazing super realistic visuals can be a blessing but sometimes they can be a negative as well. And you have to read the client a bit to make those judgements.
Again, we're selling a lifestyle and, in a way, we're also helping to support a fun and enjoyable process for the clients. Be it a yacht or an aircraft, for them to come in, feel the materials, meet the team etc. is really great.
RR: Great answer. I do understand what you're saying and for somebody like me who has been drawing and sketching from a very young age, I understand the organic value in hand sketches.
A very satisfying thing putting pencil and paper. So let me see. I had a follow up to this one. Do you also use renderings as a preliminary internal tool; a means of checking whether architectural elements or palette decisions have worked the way you imagined therefore building in time for tweaks and reworks before it's presented to the customer. I mean I suppose the answer seems rather obvious, but I just wanted you to comment on that quickly.
GJ: Yeah, I mean we certainly use them as an internal validation tool. As you know, you’re never going to show anything to the client unless we’re completely satisfied and happy with it. We will commonly do three or four rounds of internal critique on those before we arrive at what we collectively agree is ready to be presented to the client. So yes, we build in considerable extra time for that iterative refinement process.
RR: I don't think I'd be alone in asserting that all of us, both designers and customers would one day like to see much larger windows from the major OEM 's. Boeing announced their “Scenic Vista” window for narrow-body BBJs a few years ago - but it hasn't seemed to stick on their options list. Can you tell us what you might know or forecast about the future of larger windows? And have you played around with such concepts internally or perhaps even nudged the OEM's?
GJ: Well, I don't know anything that you probably don’t know Rick. Unfortunately, there's no secret knowledge on our end. I mean we see all these renderings coming out of the OEMs and elsewhere depicting these huge scenic windows, don't we? All these futuristic concepts, big windows or projections on the ceiling that show a passing sky. It’s fun to look at and think about but I'm guessing we're still quite a long way from seeing any of that in production. Of course, it would be amazing. But as you know, the pace of change in the aviation industry is pretty glacial. I mean I've still never been on aircraft where the Wi-Fi really works well, you know? So, while I agree it would be a huge game changer, I think it’s unfortunately still a ways off.
RR: After a pretty long lull through COVID and even some time before, VVIP now seems to be heating up again. It seems that orders are sharply up for Boeing (BBJs) and Airbus’s ACJ program. Does Winch currently have any VVIP aircraft projects underway at the moment and if so, are you finding adequate slot availability among the major centers.
GJ: Yes, I mean it's obviously been a quiet couple of years. But even as the lull is showing signs of being over, there's only so many of these projects out there at any given time, as you know. It's a pretty amazing thing to go and build a full VVIP aircraft interior. So yes, I mean things do seem to be picking up a bit in the last 12 months. I can't go into too much detail but we do have a BBJ in build at the moment. And we've got a couple of bizjets we're working on and two refits. So, aircraft that are in for a C-check, we'll often get asked to do a refit on them. We've also got a wide-body project on the drawing boards. But overall, it’s a small industry and the projects are pretty rare. I noticed at EBACE there were several conversations about things picking up a bit, but I don't think slot availability is an issue at this point.
RR: Winch is only one of a handful of aviation studios that have a dedicated well established customer showroom. Do you find that your customers, the actual principals, enjoy making the trip to London to visit your showroom and work with your staff during the design development process? Also would you say your showroom plays a significant role in your overall success as a as a studio?
GJ: Good question as well Rick. Yeah, I mean next time you're in London you need to come for a visit so we can show you. Ya know, we're lucky. We've got a really nice studio that we've been in for around 25 years now. We’re right on the Thames. It's a really nice spot in southwest London and yes, our clients definitely enjoy coming there. We've got an extensive materials library and a constant stream of suppliers coming in to bring us the latest catalogues and samples. So, it's a very nice kind of exciting, buzzy and creative space. We generally do most of our client presentations in there surrounded by all the samples so they can feel and touch everything – and feel ‘involved’ in the process. It’s clear that most clients enjoy that.
Again, we're selling a lifestyle and, in a way, we're also helping to support a fun and enjoyable process for the clients. Be it a yacht or an aircraft, for them to come in feel the materials, meet the team etc. is really great. Coming back to your question about our single biggest asset, here’s yet another good example of how there are several key tools in our toolbox. And our showroom is certainly one of those key assets in our success.
RR: How involved do you get with exterior livery? I assume that in most cases your design scope covers that bit as well. How much freedom do your customers normally give you in creating something special for them on the exterior as well, and when it is the case, do you work closely with the paint facility?
GJ: We love doing liveries. We've done lots of them, in fact for the majority of projects we do, livery is usually part of it. It's something fun and less mired in complexity. Essentially, it’s a graphic design exercise, another skillset to tap into. To see something you've sketched out blown up onto the side of a 767, as a designer that's a pretty good kick, right? It’s pretty cool. The day they start painting is also pretty special. We like to be there for that and also for the tape-up. And no two are ever the same or even close. Some clients are pretty restrained, fairly discreet while others really want that ramp presence, like ‘hey look, I’m in Miami’. They want something bold, even out there on occasion. There was a Falcon 7X we did a couple of years ago where we did a Van Gogh inspired exterior livery; the whole scheme based on his infamous Starry Nights. But in terms of process, it’s really interesting. I mean you sketch these things out on a sheet a paper or on a computer screen. It’s all in 2D until you're standing there looking at a 787. You've got this tube in all its 3Dness - and it's covered in in winglets and antennas and flaps and bits and bobs. It becomes a different ball game at that point, countless thins to work out in getting it all to make sense and read the way you want when it’s done.
When I first joined over 15 years ago, I was involved in the livery on a 767. I’d drawn it out and then I'd gone out to do the tape-up with the guys. But they couldn't quite get this line on the wing as I wanted it and I ended up crawling out onto the wing of this 767 with a roll of tape in my teeth shaking. I was really nervous - no harness or anything, just crawling out on this wing to tape this line on the winglet.
RR: I have long loathed the landscape of available certified aircrafts seats. Most seem to employ the same rigid seat frame platforms from the 90s and appear resistant to change. As a studio do you share this concern, and if so, do you see a change on the horizon?
GJ: Well, as designers I think we’re on the same page here Rick. I completely agree with your question and the frustration. It does seem considerably out of touch with the times. I mean we all understand the rigorous certification issues around aircraft of course and seating in particular. It’s a challenge and things haven’t seemed to progress very much in the last 15 years. There have however seen a few companies who've tried to try to shift the paradigm. Lufthansa is one that comes to mind. They had a had a concept a while ago which I think has been brought by???? Gucci, trying to do a single pedestal chair and this kind of thing. In 2006 we made one of their chairs look like an Eames lounger with a veneer back and we did the Ottoman to go with it, the buttoning detail etc. And it looked fantastic. But in terms of sweeping widespread advances, I don't see a change on the immediate horizon. Much like the big windows, so far, the will of the major seat manufacturers just doesn’t seem to be there.
I will say however, that there is something to be said for an existing certified chair. I mean if you are faced with a blank sheet of paper, you’re at a slight disadvantage, right? That is to say, if you have an existing chair that you can modify and/or add things like a hard-shell back or what have you, then it’s sometimes easier to get the look and feel you want without completely reinventing the wheel – which of course would mean the entire lengthy certification process, even if you wanted to reinvent the wheel. In that sense, the starting point sort of forces you to be creative.
RR: In looking at your projects over the years it seems you enjoy using very interesting and creative three-dimensional wall or bulkhead treatments. I've noticed this in Winch’s work for many years now. Is this something that you consciously like to try to work into every project as a studio, or is it more of a customer driven thing depending on the project?
GJ: Well, to be honest, I hadn't really Rick so thanks for being conscious of that Rick. Thanks for pointing it out. It's interesting that you you've noticed that. But I have to say, it's really not a conscious decision or design mandate. I was having a look back through some photos of projects after I saw this question. I think it's more a case of trying to infuse some visual interest to what is areas that are otherwise a pretty flat surface, ya know? Most bulkheads are typically a flat panel. Maybe you've got a TV monitor there and perhaps a door or some furniture. But otherwise even with a beautiful wood veneer, it can be kind of plain.
From our customer’s standpoint, if they’re going to be stuck for 9 hours staring at a bulkhead, we want to create some interest, something special that has texture and perhaps surface reliefs of some kind. Also we love tactile things, something you want to touch and that light and shade can play with and make even more interesting. I mean, in an aircraft, you've got this amazing light source from outside that. During the day or early evening, is dancing all over the cabin. When that light hits a 3-dimensional surface, it’s instantly more interesting and in most cases is moving as the aircraft moves.
We delivered a Global 5000 refit just a few months ago where the entire aft bulkhead was covered with an original commissioned artwork. So, you open the doors and enter the cabin and you’re immediately hit with this beautiful muralized bulkhead. At that point, it’s anything but a bulkhead, right? So, yes, even though the subject of your question may not be a conscious design mandate or whatever, it is, as you point out, something we do quite a lot to keep the interest going throughout the cabin.
RR: Finally, what trends, if any, are you seeing in aviation cabin design or materials at the moment? Any particular influences or recurring requests from your customers over the last few years?
GJ: Well, I think in a very general sense, a lot of private jet design follows high-end automotive and yacht design. That, I think, has become even more evident in the last decade or so. In a way, I think there is this prevailing notion that customers want a kind of seamless transition from their home to their office and then to their aircraft. Residential trends are coming through into aircraft cabins more and more these days and of course automotive design always resides at a high level. When their sitting in a Rolls Royce or whatever, they expect to see that same level of quality in their aircraft. Why should one be any different than the other. And then you have to consider that the whole word these days is way more design literate than at any time in our past. With Instagram, the Internet and other forms of visual media, we have truly become a visual society, all exposed to the most current trends every day.
I guess the other thing we're seeing lot of, on the yacht side, is clients directly coming to us asking for a sustainable project - and you know as silly as that might sound on a super yacht, it’s something more and more clients are becoming very serious about. And in yachts there are newer forms of propulsion from electric drive to hydrogen that are beginning to make that possible.
In aircraft of course, I can't invent a new sustainable aviation fuel but we've still got a little bit of a part to play in the materials we choose, the lacquering and so many other more sustainable choices. Some of these clients are asking very smart, very educated questions about how sustainability can be brought to their project. It’s really quite surprising and very encouraging from an environmental responsibility perspective.
RR: Excellent note to end on Greig! I sincerely want to thank you for spending so much time with us today, especially on a Friday afternoon! With no further ado, go crack that bottle of wine and have yourself a great weekend!
JCF Magazine would like to thank Winch Design in allowing us to develop this insightful article on one of the truly great design studios in the world today. JCFM’s relationship with the design community is a special one and our design focused articles remain a favorite among our readers. Our special thanks to Greig Jolly of course for the in-depth interview and also Lucy Bodenham for her time in providing background and images for the article as - well as the animation in support our Jetzign sector.
For more information on WINCH DESIGN, visit: winchdesign.com
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